Hi again,

Finding this topic fascinating, despite my distaste of it :oops: What you've written just doesn't bring me to the same conclusions. You sound well read on the topic, but perhaps it's what you know that is unwritten that has led you to the conclusion? I too appreciate that people tend to anthropomorphise(sp?) animal's behaviour, but that's not how I came to my view on this.

Fancy, fish don't feel pain? Curiouser & curiouser! I wonder how they worked that out. That's kind of my point - that the premise is given without valid reasons. Not saying it's not true, but I'd need more valid info to believe it. I don't see how lack of intelligence has to do with it, or lack of need for survival - how then do you explain other forms of self gratification & enjoyment animals obviously search out & enjoy just for the sake of it?

There are other assumptions in your last post that I also disagree with, such as women not finding penetration by itself enjoyable... won't go into detail there, but anyway, it's been interesting, thanks. I must ask the sanctuary staff about that emu...

Oh & sorry to wip for hijacking the thread!