The "Anti-Ceasar Millan" Great article!!!

[countrychic10]

I'm not sure how many people of this board are fans of "The Dog Whisperer " with Ceasar Milan, but I came across this article and loved it!

http://tinyurl.com/ykj3g5

Personally, I do not care for Ceasar Milan and find alot of his ideas to be cruel, though many will disagree with me. I think he is just a charismatic actor with a great screen presence. Sadly many people get hooked on the "Hollywood stuff" and disregard people who truely deserve credit.

Great stuff about Ian Dunbar. He really deserves much more credit than he is given. He is the founder of APDT, The Association of Pet Dog Trainers.

[ritabooker]

Thanks for posting this url. Have not read it yet...have printed it and will read it in the morning with tea.

Here is some irony: the first time I heard the phrase "The Dog Whisperer" was when I picked up a book by Paul Owens. His approach could also be described as Anti-Ceasar Milan. This book was published in 1999.

[countrychic10]

Rita

I'm sure you'll enjoy the article. I know I did. Anyone who is a die-hard "Ceasar fan" will not though. I do find the whole "Dog Whisperer" craze very disturbing. Many wonderful trainer's like Ian Dunbar revolutionized the dog training world and showed people you can train your dog with kindness and your dog will obey you because he WANTS to not because he is afraid of you. Trainers like Ceasar are taking dog training back to the dark ages in my opinion. The methods used are out-dated and un-nessesary. Alot of the techniques used can also be dangerous to the dog and to the people trying them. Just because the show states "Don't try this @ home" doesn't mean people actually listen. I can't tell you how many people I have heard say "I saw Cesar do this.... so I'm going to try it" I feel for their dogs.

People who are fans insist that his methods work. Which they do. I will not deny that he has had success. What I do argue is the fact that there are more effective and humane ways of doing things. I have dogs that top 100 lbs and my 3 year old son can tell them to do anything and they listen. I have never had to force "belly-rolls" on my dogs, put them in the "bite-holds" (or whatever he calls it) or exhaust them to make them obey. I have used trainers who follow Ian Dunbar's way of thinking and have never had any problems. And this is not just on dogs I have had as puppies. I have used these gentler training methods on some of my rescues that have had issues from aggression, fear ect. ect. (much like the "severe cases Ceasar deals with on his show) and in the end I have wonderful dogs, who obey because they want to please, they do not obey because they fear me and I have never had to be harsh with any of them.

I guess when it comes to training its "To each his own" but I know I throughly enjoyed the article and have enjoyed Ian's books in the past. It is just so sad to me that someone respected and educated like Ian Dunbar has been pushed aside in favor of a flashy T.V character, who's credentials include "Working with Dogs on his grandpa's farm since he was a boy"... LOL heck if that's all you need to be a qualified expert in the feild of canine behaviour, I guess I'm gonna call up National Geographic and ask if they can get me my own dog training show :lol: Anyone have any ideas for a show title?? LOL

[Arazante]

I have already gotten chewed out by fans of this show. I can't believe the following this guy has! I tried to explain to them, that like with children, you do not corner, taunt, or intimidate them, but they seem to think his show is nothing but right. And it puzzled me why (at the forum) I saw so many threads of how these people had aggression problems with their pitties! They're following poor advice and it's so sad something so marketed suckers people into this kind of crap.

I liked the article, by the way.

[ritabooker]

Yes, I liked the article too. My hubby read it and that resulted in a good, meaty discussion for us...I always like that.

Each person gets to pick their method. The thing that really decides it for me: Don't try this at home. If I can't try it at home it is useless to me.
If I have a dog I cannot manage because of aggression, it will have to be trained by someone else, and it has to be someone who can teach me methods I can use at home and feel confident with.

If I know that a dog is responding because they want to, I will have the confidence I need to succeed with that dog. I believe a dog gets an endorphin boost from praise and love, the same way people do when we succeed and get rewarded. It is one of our most powerful motivators, and I believe it is one of the dogs' most powerful motivators, too.

[countrychic10]

Arazante,

LOL I know what ya mean about getting chewed out over being "anti-milan" :lol: My mother in law is a die hard fan of the show and can't stand it when I say something bad about him. It does bother me alot that people can be so easily suckered into to this great marketing ploy. I understand falling for some cr*p on an infomercial or maybe taking advice from a T.V shrink from time to time, but it blows my mind that "dog-lover's" think his methods are they way to go. It is sooo obvious to me that his techniques are outdated and cruel, so why can't everyone else see past the wit and charming character of Ceasar Millan and see the uneducated, flamboyant fool that he is???

Rita,

I completely agree with your last post! Right on the money! :) Also glad you were able to get a meaty discussion over the article. :D My mother in law and I had a great time debating this one. lol

[Sammy]

Wow, I always enjoyed the show. Mainly for entertainment, but I don't think he is as bad as many people are trying to make him out to be. He helps dogs who would otherwise be PTS..whats wrong with that?

[ritabooker]

Sammy, there is nothing wrong with helping dogs who would be put to sleep. If he is getting lasting results, that is good.

I would just prefer someone with a different style of training for myself and my mutts.

[kerryclair]

Sammy,
I think what the people here are saying is NOT that he does not know how to train dogs, nor that his techniques do not work, but what this man deals with are very difficult training issues and he is an experienced dog handler. Someone trying these techniques that could not read dogs as well, or without his experience could get VERY seriously hurt, or make their dog WORSE by doing what he is doing. His techniques are not something you just start by watching and trying at home. It is really a whole series of being alpha at home FIRST and then learning about the dog. Dogs respect him very quickly as an alpha leader and hence their responses to him are pretty quick...but the average pet owner is having a problem with their dog because they do NOT have this relationship and so attempting what he does is NOT a good practivce or an idea.

Also in some cases he is overly harsh. In one episode he exposed a dog to that which frightened it most - crowds and he "de-sensitized" the dog to crowds by racing it through them while he was on skates. Now, weird situation here but try to "desensitize" on a dog that has been abused or in a shelter for mistreatment and what you'll do is create a WORSE problem.

So it is not that he is a moron or cruel or all his techniques are wrong...it is just that they are NOT appropriate for MOST people and MANY dogs. They work for him for a variety of reasons that they do not really go into in the show, and it causes too many people to think they can try things at home that they should NEVER be doing until they have more experience.

Hope that helps explain this.

[champ]

Sammy,
I think what the people here are saying is NOT that he does not know how to train dogs, nor that his techniques do not work, but what this man deals with are very difficult training issues and he is an experienced dog handler. Someone trying these techniques that could not read dogs as well, or without his experience could get VERY seriously hurt, or make their dog WORSE by doing what he is doing. ...Dogs respect him very quickly as an alpha leader ....

...They work for him for a variety of reasons that they do not really go into in the show, ...

Kerry,

With all due respect, I disagree with your comment that just less experienced people can get hurt with these methods - there are plenty of cases of 'Good' dogs being turned 'Bad' with these sort of confrontational methods, even when used by 'experts'. Usually these dogs are then labled 'untrainable', 'viscious', 'dangerous', etc. I don't beleive these methods promote respect, unless your understanding of the word respect is synonymous with fear. I also suspect one big reason these methods 'work' on the show is heavy editing. Don't beleive what you see on TV. :twisted: JMO