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SalemWitchChild
09-03-2005, 09:55 AM
First of all, let me explain that I go to many forums. One of which is another pet forum. On this particular forum everyone is hung up on "Natural Dog Food". Those that you have to find special stores for and pay outragious prices for a bag of food that you either have to refrigerate or use up quickly. They have created a list based on ingredients of other brands of food that are listed as good, semi-good, and bad. My personal brand (Purina Beneful) is listed as bad. I'm going to post a copy of the list here. This is not my work. If you want to know who it came from you'll have to ask for the link because I'm not sure if I should put it here. It would take you to a compediter forum.


Im going to make this a concise and easy reference for your reading pleasure.

Ingredients which automatically rule out a food.
If these are anywhere in the ingredients list, put it down and look for something else.

A non-meat first ingredient is an automatic no go.

Meat by-products: By-products can vary ... they can consist of the internal parts of animals such as necks, heads, undeveloped eggs, feet, intestines, lungs, spleen and liver. Although by-products are used by many manufacturers, are these ingredients you would knowingly feed your pet?

Corn: Corn products are difficult for dogs to digest.

Food Fragments: Lower cost by-products of another food manufacturing process. Examples include wheat bran and brewer's rice (a waste product of the alcohol industry).

Meat and bone meal: "Meat and bone meal" and "beef and bone meal" are inexpensive sources of animal protein. The protein in a meal containing a large amount of bone may be poorly digestible and fail to provide adequate nutrition.

Animal Fat: Animal fat is a "generic" fat source that is most often made up of rendered animal fat, restaurant grease, or other oils too rancid or deemed inedible for humans. Look for a named fat source, such as poultry or chicken fat, that is naturally preserved.

Chemical Preservatives: Chemical preservatives include butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA), butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), propyl gallate, propylene glycol (also used as a less-toxic version of automotive antifreeze), and ethoxyquin. BHA, BHT, and ethoxyquin are potentially cancer-causing agents. The long term build-up of these chemicals (that may be eaten every day for the life of your pet!) have not been thouroughly studied and may ultimately be harmful.

Sweeteners: Sweeteners such as corn syrup, sugar, and cane mallases are usually added to lower quality foods to increase their appeal. Dietary sugars can aggrevate health problems, including diabetes.

Beef Tallow A low quality fat product.

SugarThis is not an ingredient most people would expect to find in dog food, but many foods do, in fact, contain sugar, especially the semi-moist brands. In fact, some semi-moist foods contain as much as 15% sugar. The sugar adds palatability and moisture, and aids in bacterial contamination prevention. Dogs do not need this amount of sugar, which can stress the pancreas and adrenal glands, causing diabetes. Completely devoid of protein, vitamins and minerals, sugar is, literally, empty calories.

Food colorings These still commonly used in pet foods today despite the fact that they are not necessary and some have been linked to medical problems

Stuff to look for

Rice A combination of brown and white rice. The white rice for digestibility and the brown for its added nutritional value. A diet product that is 100% brown rice can be somewhat hard for some animals to digest. Rice is good, corn is not.

Meat vs Meal Pet food labels found in grocery and mass marketers like to use Chicken or Lamb to represent real meat. – (Contains 70% moisture). This leads you the consumer to believe that their product is meat based. Chicken or lamb meats are heavier than grains prior to cooking. The moisture contained in the meats (70%) is reduced by 2/3rds after the cooking process, leaving the total formula as a grain base food after processing. Therefore, pound for pound, meal is better than meat as its basically a concentrated form of meat, less water, more protein!

Wheat Wheat is ok, as long as its not in the top 3 ingredients

Other Ingredients and what they are for

Chicken Fat (Omega 6) Essential fatty acids, maintains moisture in skin cells and is easily digested.

Fish Meal (Omega 3) Essential fatty acids, controls skin inflammation, helps relieve itching & hot spots.

Flax Seed (Omega 3) Essential fatty acids, helps reduce allergy problems caused from flea bites and gives the coat a shiny luster.

Sunflower Oil (Omega 6) Essential fatty acids, prevents scruffy, dry coat and maintains moisture in skin cells.

Lecithin Helps emulsify cholesterol and aids in the digestion and absorption of fats that feed the coat.

Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) Essential fatty acids, helps to prevent moisture loss from cells that cause flaky, dry skin and coat.


Sage Strengthens the mind and concentrating abilities; it aids in healing skin sores and skin eruptions and removing dandruff. It has been mostly employed in disordered states of the digestion and for its savory usage.

Vitamin E (mixed tocopherols) Nourishes and heals the skin.

Biotin Aids in the growth and health of hair.

Cranberry Meal Prevents the spread of bacterial infections in kidneys and the urinary tract. Helps prevent Cystitis.


Rosemary Is a stimulant of the circulatory system; to treat bad breath; stimulates the hair bulbs to new growth. Employed for its savory usage.


Apple Meal Rich in soluble fiber, lowers blood cholesterol levels and normalizes blood sugar.


Amaranth Vitamin packed herb, calms the stomach, reduces tissue swelling, removes worms and parasites from the digestive tract.


Brewers Yeast (Nutritional Yeast) A rich source of the B vitamins, contains 16 amino acids, 14 minerals and 17 vitamins. Protects, binds and rids from mycotoxins, which cause liver and organ damage..


Yucca Used for its reduction of both breath and stool odor ! A cleansing agent. Used by the Indians of the southwest for skin disorders, skin eruptions and helps avoid inflammation..


Eggs An excellent source of protein and contains all the essential Amino Acids..


Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Streptococcus Faecium fermentation extracts Probiotics. Better digestion and absorption of nutrients, they act to exclude and prevent harmful bacteria from colonizing and creating digestive upsets, helps prevent sickness and stress..

Yeast Culture All natural live yeast culture, it acts to stimulate microbial and enzyme populations in the animals digestive system. Live yeast cultures plus dried fermentation solubles..

COPPER AND IRON A deficiency of iron causes nutritional anemia. A small amount of copper will improve utilization of iron..


Beet Pulp (Sugar) CONTROVERSIAL
• AAFCO - Beet Pulp is the dried residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar.
• Natura uses it because - "it as a good source of fiber and a stool hardener". However, it is not found in their Innova or California Natural products.
• Solid Gold doesn't use it because they believe it is: "Added to pet food to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats (think toxic waste). This holds the waste in. Kidneys and liver work overtime. Dogs may chew their lower backs. Feet may swell, so the dogs lick their feet. Sugar is a contributing factor to ear infections and cataracts".
Beet pulp is rather controversial, many think that it is an excellent additive and source of fiber and that all sugar has been completely extracted before being added as a pet food ingredients. If this is the only "problem" ingredient in a kibble, other factors will have to help you decide.

Brewers Rice
• AAFCO - Brewer's Rice is the small milled fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice.
• Natura will not use it because they state it is a "lower quality rice product that is missing many of the nutrients found in Ground Rice and Ground Brown Rice." Solid Gold says that is the sweepings from the floor of the mill.

Rice Bran
• AAFCO - Rice Bran is the outer coating of the rice kernel, with little or none of the starchy part of the germ.
• Natura and Solid Gold reject it because it is "an inexpensive source of fiber that is considered a filler ingredient", i.e. devoid of nutrient value.

Sorghum
• AAFCO - Sorghum is the ground grain of the sorghum plant.
• Natura alleges that although sorghum is good source of carbohydrates, it is low in digestibility.

Side Note
Condemned parts and animals rejected for human consumption can be rerouted into commercial pet foods. These condemned parts are referred to as the 4 D's: dead, dying, diseased or decayed. We believe this is one of the most despicable practices in the pet food manufacturing industry.
Some manufacturers have a lower standard regarding the quality of ingredients they use to make pet food. A recent example of this practice is the discovery of Pentobarbital in major pet foods, including supermarket brands. Pentobarbital is a chemical used to euthanize animals. Many holistic veterinarians feel that daily ingestion of pentobarbital can be harmful.
Many manufacturers cut costs by using the cheapest ingredients available at the time a food is made. Since costs rise and fall, some manufacturers will vary ingredients from batch to batch .. resulting in changed nutrient values for each batch and possible digestive illness.
Some manufacturers have lower standards regarding the freshness of ingredients they use to make pet food. You can not determine the freshness of ingredients by reading a label; you must trust the pet food manufacturer.


Now I know you are still asking “is this food good”, so here is the basic lists with the research done for you (tsk tsk!)

The Good
When you want the best money can buy….
ADVANCE
BALANCE DIET
The Food ADVANTAGE
CANINE CAVIAR PET FOODS
Cripple Creek Kennels
Natural Balance
FLINT RIVER RANCH
HAPPY PAWS
HOLISTIC BLEND
SOLID GOLD
LIFE'S ABUNDANCE
TENDER LOVING CARE
NATURE'S FINEST
MATRIX
OLD MOTHER HUBBARD
Sammy Snacks
TIMBERWOLF ORGANICS
ULTRA NATURAL PET FOODS
VeRUS Pet Foods
VITA-MAX PET FOODS
AZMIRA PET FOODS
BREEDERS CHOICE
CALIFORNIA NATURAL
INNOVA CANINE
PINNACLE
ROYAL CANIN SIZE (natural blend variety)
NATURALLY CANADIAN
CANIDAE PET
KIRKLAND (KIBBLE)
Far More
NATURAL BLEND
The Bad
Well, they aren’t BAD, they just don’t quite make the A grade cut. No-one should look down on you for feeding this to Fido and Spot, its good, just not the best. Dogs will do well on these.
BENCH & FIELD
THE PET PANTRY
DIAMOND BRAND
RIDE DOG FOOD
EAGLE PACK SUPER PREMIUM PET FOOD
NATURE'S RECIPE
INOVATIVE VETERNARY DIETS
ROYAL CANIN SIZE
NUTRO
NUTRO MAX
PRECISE PET FOOD
PET FIRST
SIRIUS PET FOODS
PHD, PERFECT HEALTH DIETS
WYSONG PROFESSIONAL DIETS
ANF Specialties
ANMAR
ANNAMAET PET FOODS
APD (ADVANCED PET DIETS)
ARDEN GRANGE
NUTRA NUGGETS
OWEN & MANDEVILLE PET PRODUCTS, INC.
"PAW" TICULARS
PET CHEF EXPRESS
Burns Pet Nutrition
PROPAC DOG FOODS
CANUSA PET FOOD
SPORTSMAN'S CHOICE
LAMB AND RICE FORMULA
Pronature
STURDY
DOCK'S PET FOOD
DYNAMITE ONLINE DYNAMITE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS
K9 Gourmet
MARTINS FORMULA
NOBLE DOG FOOD
NUTRIENCE PET FOOD
NUTRIENCE
AUTHORITY PET FOODS CO
QUALITY CARE PLUS (QC+)
REGAL PET FOODS
BLACKWOOD CORPORATION
Euro Premium
MAX DOG FOOD
NATURAL LIFE PET PRODUCTS, INC.
PETGUARD
PREMIUM EDGE
Petsmart Premier
TECHNI-CAL
The Ugly
Don’t feed your dog these under any circumstances!
PURINA PRESCRIPTION DIETS (ok, so sometimes you have to, but I would beg and threaten my vet for an alternative)
Alpo
MERA DOG
Petco.
NATIONAL DOG FOODS
SPORTMIX
Tuffy's Dog Food
WALTHAM
WAYNE
SHUR-GAIN
Bil-Jac
SCIENCE DIET
EUKANUBA
LAND O' LAKES
EXCEL
MUENSTER MILLING CO.
EXPERT CONDITIONING
JOY PET FOODS
Purina Beneful
IAMS
Nutripet
BUCKEYE PET FOODS
PROFESSIONAL PET FOODS
EARL MAY PREMIUM BLEND
Prominence
CORNUCOPIA PET FOODS, INC.
PRO PLAN
VETERINARY MEDICAL DIETS Select Care and Medi-Cal
Jappy
FORZA10
LINDQUIST FOODS
FROMM
MASTERY
MY-CHAMPS MICROBIAL STYLE DOG FOOD
GEREEN ENTERPRISES
KUMPI DOG FOOD
HAPPY DOG
High Hopes
ECONOMY LINE
ECONOUF
EXCEL
1st. CHOICE
Big Red
Black Gold Pet Foods, Inc.
BLUE SEAL PREMIUM FEEDS. LTD.
BACK TO BASICS
BLUE RIBBON BRAND DOG FOOD
CYCLE ADULT
PUREBRED COMPANY
PURINA O.N.E. Brand
OL' ROY BRAND
WALTHAM
PEDIGREE
PURINA BRAND DOG FOODS
THOMPSON'S PET PASTA PRODUCTS
GRAVY TRAIN
KASCO
KIBBLES 'N BITS
DR. BALLARD ORIGINAL VETERINARIAN RECIPES
The Robert Abady Dog Food Company, Ltd
MAXXIMUM NUTRITION
But the good costs so much!
Burger King is cheap too you know…
You have to realize that the higher quality the food, the less fillers and more actual nutrition. The portion sizes are much smaller, the food lasts longer, and you are spending less time picking up landmines all over the backyard. Everybody wins.
To add to this, dont play the helpless "oh but I cant find it at Walmart or Petsmart" card. Use google, look up the webpages, more than likely they will have a store locater for their distributers. Good food is worth the 5 seconds youll have to search on google for.
Sources
http://www.healthypetnet.com/
http://www.canidae.com/
http://www.doberdogs.com
http://www.feedmypet.com
The Animal Protection Institute, "What's Really in Pet Food.", January 29, 2002.
Kerns, Nancy "Choose the Best Dry Food.", The Whole Dog Journal, February 2000, 13-17.
The Animal Protection Institute, "Selecting a Commercial Pet Food. ", October 25, 2001.

My personal opinion on all of this is that their sources were created to promote the dog foods that they say are healthier. If you look at the sources most go to dog food companys in the favorable list. What is the opinion of those on this forum?

Note* I have no intention of changing my food. Kota is doing well on it and I would not change her routine right now. I just want everyones opinons. This seems to be the largest beef I have with this other forum. I consider it bad advice and I don't like that. :x

kerryclair
09-03-2005, 02:22 PM
I have to say that I agree with a lot of their GOOD/BAD choices.
The fact is that dog food companies are not required to list their ingredients. They can list WHAT THEY WANT in many cases. So many dog foods are PACKED with preservatives - most cause cancer. I don't know. It is worth paying extra I think for a good dog food...but I really do not know what the answer is. I guess you need to go by how your dog looks. Shiny coat? healthy? Then I suppose you can stick with your food..

SalemWitchChild
09-03-2005, 04:47 PM
So what's the difference with choosing a dog food with perservitives and our food with persevitives. :? We eat things all the time that is not healthy for us. Or so they say. Why call someone a bad dog owner when we don't take care of ourselves any better?

And yes, she is fat, healthy, and shiny.

Juanita-(Spirit-Rainbow)
09-03-2005, 07:36 PM
So what's the difference with choosing a dog food with perservitives and our food with persevitives. :? We eat things all the time that is not healthy for us. Or so they say. Why call someone a bad dog owner when we don't take care of ourselves any better?


I think the biggest difference is that if I choose to eat something that isn't good for me, I'm making that choice. Supposedly a "well-informed" choice. :) In any case, it's me choosing what I'm going to eat/do, and knowing the ramifications.

However, my animal companions are totally 100% dependent on me to feed them (as well as love and care for them, etc.). They don't have much of a say in the matter. So if I make a less than best choice, they're the ones who are stuck with it and have to live with the consequences, if there are any.

In the past I've used Flint River Ranch and I've supplemented with Barley Dog. At the time I was happy with the results.

Currently, however, I'm using mostly Iams Lamb and Rice for the girls and supplementing/treating with Beneful Healthy Weight. The kitties get a mixture of dry that I combine from different bags/brands.

Everybody is happy and healthy. And, as you say, that's a good thing. <g>

On the flip side. . . . when my folks were alive and on a very limited income, I would/did support the importance of their 2 cats and small dog in their lives, and feeding the "best she could" from the grocery store. And they all 3 lived long, happy lives. (the little dog is still alive and with my ex-)

SalemWitchChild
09-03-2005, 07:47 PM
So what's the difference with choosing a dog food with perservitives and our food with persevitives. :? We eat things all the time that is not healthy for us. Or so they say. Why call someone a bad dog owner when we don't take care of ourselves any better?



On the flip side. . . . when my folks were alive and on a very limited income, I would/did support the importance of their 2 cats and small dog in their lives, and feeding the "best she could" from the grocery store. And they all 3 lived long, happy lives. (the little dog is still alive and with my ex-)

I understand wanting to give the best for your dog. I just disagree that the best has to be $30 for a bag of food that will last a week and expire. I have always fed food from the store. Purina has been a brand my family has used for a long time. With the exception of Ol Roy, I think most of them are okay to feed. Every dog I've had has ate Purina. All of them led long healthy lives. Non died because of their food choices. So saying that someone is not a good dog owner because they feed from the "bad: list as the post implies is wrong.

Juanita-(Spirit-Rainbow)
09-04-2005, 08:27 PM
I understand wanting to give the best for your dog. I just disagree that the best has to be $30 for a bag of food that will last a week and expire.

<snip>

So saying that someone is not a good dog owner because they feed from the "bad: list as the post implies is wrong.


I agree totally. The $30 a bag just doesn't make it the best. At the time I was happy not having any 'artificial preservatives' in the food, and I really liked the idea of all ingredients being "good enough for human consumption" or however they state it. But sometimes there is just other alternatives that work best for us and our kids.

I've also read quite a bit about making your own dog/cat food. Or combining natural & fresh/raw ingredients. Doing this you also usually add in other supplements to be sure they're getting a balance and getting optimum vitamins, minerals, etc. I have several reference books (many of which are written by veterinarians) and most all cover this subject in varying degrees of detail and depth.

I've thought about this, but it just doesn't work for me. Before my divorce, we had 4 dogs and 4 cats, and it was just out of the question. Even now, with 2 dogs and 2 cats, it's still not a choice I can/would make. Heck, I'm not very good at cooking for myself even! :wink: :lol:


I also totally agree that what we feed our fur-kids does not equate to whether we are "bad" or good owners. And I also agree that when someone makes that equation they are off-the-mark, short-sighted, and making a very broad assumption. Something that is unkind and thoughtless for them to do. IMHO, of course. :)

Okay, I'll get off that soapbox. . . . :wink:

SalemWitchChild
09-05-2005, 07:27 PM
I understand wanting to give the best for your dog. I just disagree that the best has to be $30 for a bag of food that will last a week and expire.

<snip>

So saying that someone is not a good dog owner because they feed from the "bad: list as the post implies is wrong.


I agree totally. The $30 a bag just doesn't make it the best. At the time I was happy not having any 'artificial preservatives' in the food, and I really liked the idea of all ingredients being "good enough for human consumption" or however they state it. But sometimes there is just other alternatives that work best for us and our kids.

I've also read quite a bit about making your own dog/cat food. Or combining natural & fresh/raw ingredients. Doing this you also usually add in other supplements to be sure they're getting a balance and getting optimum vitamins, minerals, etc. I have several reference books (many of which are written by veterinarians) and most all cover this subject in varying degrees of detail and depth.



I've thought about this, but it just doesn't work for me. Before my divorce, we had 4 dogs and 4 cats, and it was just out of the question. Even now, with 2 dogs and 2 cats, it's still not a choice I can/would make. Heck, I'm not very good at cooking for myself even! :wink: :lol:


I also totally agree that what we feed our fur-kids does not equate to whether we are "bad" or good owners. And I also agree that when someone makes that equation they are off-the-mark, short-sighted, and making a very broad assumption. Something that is unkind and thoughtless for them to do. IMHO, of course. :)

Okay, I'll get off that soapbox. . . . :wink:

lol. That's why I made this post.. So we can get on the soapbox! :P

I've heard some good and some bad things about feeding raw. First of all. There is bacteria in there that can harm a dog. Think about if you were to eat raw hamburger all the time. You could get several diseases. I'm only speculating here, but doesn't the chances of getting worms increase when you eat raw food?

Personally I think feeding raw would be very expensive considering the prices of meat and totally unnessessary.

Juanita-(Spirit-Rainbow)
09-06-2005, 08:02 PM
lol. That's why I made this post.. So we can get on the soapbox! :P

I've heard some good and some bad things about feeding raw. First of all. There is bacteria in there that can harm a dog. Think about if you were to eat raw hamburger all the time. You could get several diseases. I'm only speculating here, but doesn't the chances of getting worms increase when you eat raw food?

Personally I think feeding raw would be very expensive considering the prices of meat and totally unnessessary.


Okay, I should have clarified. :oops:

Mostly the "raw diet" would be raw veggies and the like. I'd have to pull out my books for the "whole list." There's actually active disagreement about whether a dog or cat needs any meat at all. Of course, there's the whole "they're carnivores" arguement to get into with that. :wink:

And absolutely, raw meat in today's society would not be a good thing. IMO! So I'm in total agreement there with you. I've even seen on some discussions, that if you're going to "cook" the meat, then "barely cook" it, etc. Well, all the reasons you mentioned, wouldn't be addressed with the "barely cook" approach. So you're back to square one there, imho. <shrug>

And you're right, with the cost of meat and good, organic veggies, you're back into totallying up the $$ signs again. Not to mention being sure to add in appropriate supplements as/if needed to balance it all out. More $$ signs. :)

And I'll be honest. . . . the 'time sink' in the kitchen putting that all together every day or two or three is a really BIG arguement against it. As I said earlier, I don't even do much cooking for myself! LOL! :lol:

SalemWitchChild
09-07-2005, 05:08 PM
[quote=SalemWitchChild]

As I said earlier, I don't even do much cooking for myself! LOL! :lol:

Neiter do I. About 20 mins tops. Except on the weekends. Then it's a 5 minute phone call to the pizza place. 8)

the rest of it we agree on.

Oh, and I have tried giving my dog veggies. Makes her stomach really upset. Big no no for her if I want to have good carpets. :x

kerryclair
09-09-2005, 01:19 AM
Well, it just seems to me though that any food that has a shelf life of months and months....well, isn't that just downright WEIRD? I mean unless it is canned, it has to be PACKED with preservatives or other agents to make it last and THAT is the main problem I have with a lot of foods. It is weird that we do not refrigerate foods and can leave them out for months and they are ok. Is that really "food" or some chemical by-product of food. I dunno...but it is "food for thought".

SalemWitchChild
09-09-2005, 01:47 PM
Well, it just seems to me though that any food that has a shelf life of months and months....well, isn't that just downright WEIRD? I mean unless it is canned, it has to be PACKED with preservatives or other agents to make it last and THAT is the main problem I have with a lot of foods. It is weird that we do not refrigerate foods and can leave them out for months and they are ok. Is that really "food" or some chemical by-product of food. I dunno...but it is "food for thought".

lol. Yes Kerry it may be weird. You know a twinkie lasts 7 years. I still eat them though... :wink:

I'm not saying go buy the cheapest brand you can find. I believe personsonally Ol Roy should go out of business. We fed that and had dogs that couldn't hold themselves until we switched foods.

But brands like Purina, Science Diet, Iams, ect..
I've never had problems with them. I know each dog handles them differently so the dog should sample them all. But really all those preservatives aren't that bad or else we would be dead ourselves long before we meet our maker. :roll:

kerryclair
09-23-2005, 04:37 AM
I think one of the other things though to consider is not just if your dog is doing well on a certain food - but what his future holds for him. When tons of dogs start turning up with various cancers and other issues, yet on the "good" food they don't, it should give us pause to think about that too.

SalemWitchChild
09-23-2005, 07:02 AM
I think one of the other things though to consider is not just if your dog is doing well on a certain food - but what his future holds for him. When tons of dogs start turning up with various cancers and other issues, yet on the "good" food they don't, it should give us pause to think about that too.

Yes that is true. But don't you think that if there were considerable amounts of dogs dying from certain brands of food that the vet would alert us? I've heard of only one or two dogs that were affected by Science Diet. Both of them most likely had other conditions that contributed to it.

kerryclair
09-23-2005, 09:00 PM
Things with dogs are not regulated like with humans.
I have had a dog with cancer, I was never asked what I was feeding him.
I have had a dog with a thyroid condition, I was never asked what i was feeding him.

In other words, how often when your dog is diagnosed with an illness are you asked what you are feeding and is it recorded? And if it was, then what? Is your vet sending all this data somewhere to be collected and analyzed?

Nope.

So really, until THAT starts happening, we don't really know. We can tell SOME things from these types of boards and SOME thins by large kennels, rescues or shelters and their experiences...but all in all ther is no national data statistic collector that is giving us this information or collecting any such data.

Maybe it is time we start!

SalemWitchChild
09-24-2005, 12:02 AM
Things with dogs are not regulated like with humans.
I have had a dog with cancer, I was never asked what I was feeding him.
I have had a dog with a thyroid condition, I was never asked what i was feeding him.

In other words, how often when your dog is diagnosed with an illness are you asked what you are feeding and is it recorded? And if it was, then what? Is your vet sending all this data somewhere to be collected and analyzed?

Nope.

So really, until THAT starts happening, we don't really know. We can tell SOME things from these types of boards and SOME thins by large kennels, rescues or shelters and their experiences...but all in all ther is no national data statistic collector that is giving us this information or collecting any such data.

Maybe it is time we start!

I agree that it should be collected. But if enough vets start seeing similarities then I would think they would start talking. And I'm asked what I feed my dog almost every time I go in. :wink:

MandaGrl
09-24-2005, 12:03 AM
Hi there, new to this board, but definitely not new to the dog food dilemma. *sigh* I have been searching for a new food recently, not because I am not happy with my current dog food (Innova Sr dry), which I think is excellent, but because it's getting quite pricey.....and because I have to wonder if they don't get bored with the same ol' same ol' after a while.

I have to admit, I have become a pet food snob :) ; but not really intentionally. Years ago when my dog was still relatively young (only about 8 or 9.....she's now about 15 but mostly you'd never know it), a local pet store suggested to my mom to try the Innova. The dog loved it and she still eats it. But a 16.5 bag costs me right about $29 incl. tax, and now it's seriously out of my way to get food.

Now, I can't bring myself to feed the dog anything with by-products or anything like that; I wouldn't want to eat that nasty stuff (ewwww), and so I don't want to feed it to the dogs either.

SOOOooooo, now my dilemma is what to change to that's a little more affordable, but equally as nutritious as what they are getting now. In looking around there's A LOT of conflicting information about what's good and what isn't, so I definitely agree with what you guys have been saying -- but other than asking the vet who either have very biased opinions or "just any old thing" opinions, I don't know where else to look to make an informed decision about what I feed my babies.

They do love their fruit and veggies, though....apples and strawberries, especially -- just not in excess. :)

sassifrass7
09-29-2005, 09:50 AM
Well, I appreciate very much that list above of "the Good, the OK, and the Bad dog foods". So, I wanted to thank you.

I've fed Eukanuba for years, but was starting to wonder about their quality when P & G bought them. That's when I switched to Life's Abundance, it comes in the mail regularly on my auto ship, and it smells fantastic. I can highly recommend it, my Shelties and Chihuahuas look great and have no coat or stool issues at all. Also, they really love it. They were picking it out when I first mixed it with Eukanuba, and leaving the other!

In the Winter I add Hot Water to it, so it's toasty. I always free feed, shelties are nibblers and so are my Chis. And they never pig out, they just eat enough. It's 26 % protein, and that is just perfect.

Of course it's not cheap, and I have 8 dogs too, but neither are the vet bills when their nutritional needs are not met. So, I opt for prevention.

Thanks for reading,
Mandy

MandaGrl
09-29-2005, 05:47 PM
Hi, Mandy

Do you like the Life's Abundance? What's the cost like for the amount of food per bag (or shipment, however it comes to you....a break down?)

I have looked at that as well in an effort to find an alternative for my dogs' food.

Thanks!
Amanda

sassifrass7
09-29-2005, 07:10 PM
Hi Amanda,
Well, it's not cheap, that's all I know. I'm on of the lucky people who gets to be a stay at home Dog Mom and buy what ever I think is best for all my dogs. I think it's cheaper on their Auto Ship plan too.

But either way, it's worth it too me.

Mandy

webig5
09-30-2005, 11:02 AM
I feed my boxers Nutro Natural Choice lamb and rice because they seem to do the best on it. It makes their coat shiny and soft and their stools are not too mushy, but not too hard. I've tried other brands, but they just had dry coats and mushy stools.

Corn dries out the skin and coat because digesting it creates higher metabolic heat than digesting rice.

I think if your animal is doing well, that's all that counts. When I was a kid we fed our cat the very cheapest grocery store canned cat food mixed with Purina Cat Chow. That cat lived for 19 years. I doubt anyone could argue that her cheap grocery store diet was unhealthy for her.

As for cancer risks, those are exceedingly difficult to track down. What contaminants are in the air your pet breathes? Have they ever walked across a lawn with pesticides on it? Do you live in an industrial city? Are there heavy metals in your drinking water? What kind of carpet is in your house? What kind of seats are in your car? It is very difficult to identify a cause of cancer. It is often presumptuous to state that a certain ingredient or food "causes" cancer. If a specific preservative or other chemical ingredient is listed on a dog food label (most likely not), you could go to the EPA's website and look up thier list of "inert" ingredients in pesticides (many of which are also food and household product additives). They catagorize the inerts by the amount of research done on them and the identified risk. Chances are though, that you will get insufficient information off the dog food lable to be able to do this.

Like most folks have said, keep an eye on your pet and see how they are doing on a particular food. If they are well and you are happy, great. But be a wise consumer and don't get duped into believing you are necessarily providing a healthier diet just because it is more expensive. (It might be a "healthy" food, but your pet doesn't do as well on it).

Hovawart
10-26-2005, 01:02 PM
I prefer NUTRA GOLD for my both dogs, becouse, there are all needful component parts ( calcium and so on- http://nutragold.com/Default.html ) and they make this food only from fresh meet, NOT frozen.

kerryclair
11-03-2005, 07:40 PM
I have fed Eukanuba, Hunda Flocken, Solid Gold, ProPlan, Blue Seal and most recently Canidae. Hands down, I have NEVER seen such a difference in my dogs since switching to Canidae. My dogs (black) are SUPER shiny, their fur is so soft, no dandruff...I honestly have NOT seen a difference in my dogs when on most other feeds, but after I switched to this one, within a month I noticed a HUGE difference. Expensive though...of course. Sigh.

audkal
03-16-2006, 05:58 PM
Kerry, I feed my dog Canidae too! I didn't really think anything was wrong with him (he was on Beneful before I made the switch). He seemed pretty healthy, but after I switched, even then I noticed differences. His fur is much softer, he has a lot more energy, he doesn't even get those "eye boogers" anymore.

The natural foods last a lot longer than a couple of weeks, they too have preservatives but they are NATURAL preservatives. I buy a 40 lb bag of Canidae (which costs about $30 at Pet Supplies Plus), and it takes my dog about 3 months to eat the whole bag, and it is fine and fresh even when he makes it to the bottom of the bag.

Also, what people don't realize is that since the natural foods don't have all those fillers, the food is more dense, so you don't have to feed as much as the cheaper foods. So in a way, you aren't really saving much money with the "cheaper" foods.

For a 50 lb dog you would feed these amounts daily:

4 cups (Pedigree Adult)
3 cups (Purina Dog Chow)
2 cups (Canidae All Life Stages)

So it's the same amount if you spend $15 on a 40 lb bag of Pedigree or $30 on a 40 lb bag of Canidae, because you feed twice as much Pedigree than Canidae.

kerryclair
03-16-2006, 07:04 PM
Audrey,
Has it made your dog fat?
One of my dogs is on it and I think he's getting fatter.
I am not sure if I can blame the food or the relaxed winter where he isn't trail riding with us (G).

audkal
03-16-2006, 09:43 PM
I recently switched to the Platinum (Senior) formula, he was already overweight when I first started Canidae. I find that my dog may gain weight in the winter months since he can't get out much, lol. But the Canidae hasn't made him gain any more weight no.

Carl
03-24-2006, 01:29 PM
The behaviorist I spoke to recently regarding my dog's behavior when left alone addressed food immediately. He said that the Purina One that I was feeding her is like giving a second grader a bottle of coke and a snickers bar for breakfast, and then expecting them to behave and be focused at school. As an elementary teacher, the thought gave me the chills. He recommended Natural Balance. I have no reason to believe that he is in any way connected with the company, nor do I have any reason to believe that he would be steering me in the wrong direction. I have some coupons that I got at PetCo when I adopted Penelope, so I can get a free small size bag, and a couple large bags at a reduced price, so I'll give it a shot.

C

Arazante
03-24-2006, 10:37 PM
Our vet advised us to use Nutragold when our dog was a puppy. It seemed to work well, but the product became discontinued in our stores so we switched to Science Diet. In my experience, it was the worst food to feed him. He threw up almost nightly and began to deny it. (And my dog loves almost every kind of food in existence). I eventually began to use ProPlan since it settles best in his stomach.

Unfortunately, a lot of the brands suggested here we never had in our pet stores. I feel a bit deprived from something I could have done.

SalemWitchChild
03-25-2006, 06:22 AM
After much consideration, and the fact that 3 different and unaffiliated dog forums all recommend the above approved dog foods, I've decided to try Kota on Flint River Ranch dog food. I just got it yesterday and I saw a change in her immediatly! Normally she is not all that interested in her food. Se would pick at it throughout the day. I mixed her normal food and the new food together and boy did she attack it! She ate the entire bowl in one sitting. :lol: As long as she continues to do good on it I'll keep buying it.

countrychic10
04-18-2006, 10:58 AM
Hi! I'm starting to notice a trend with alot of the forum sites. It seems like everyone is debating on what we should feed our beloved pets. I noticed a list of "the good and bad foods" posted by SalemWitchChild and I don't know if I nessesarily agree with the author of it (but do appreciate Salem posting it..I found it interesing). When we first got our Weimaraner we fed him Innova because it was highly recomended by a friend. He threw up almost all the time and at first we thought it was because it was a new food (we adopted him from the shelter and had no idea what he was eating before) So our vet said to keep him on it for a few weeks and gradually change to something different if it didn't work out. Well we eventually ended up switching to Authority Lamb and Rice (which is on the bad list) and he has been doing fine every since, Good body weight, shiny coat ect.. and he also prefers the taste of this food. (he used to pick at Innova but he always empties his bowl now) I don't believe you should feed your pets things like Ol' Roy, but I also don't think people should be made to feel bad because they don't feed a holistic or "all natural" diet. I have been critized severly because of what I feed my pets by other forum sites and I don't think that is fair. I take very good care of my pets and as my vet says "If they are of healthy weight, shiny smooth coats and are eating well then you are doing just fine by them" And to those people who are feeding Innova to their pets, I am not saying your food is bad...if it works for your pet then thats what you should feed them. I am starting to wonder though, just how long this food debate will go on? Its sad that I don't go to some of the other forum sites anymore just because of how mean the people were to me over what I feed my pets. :(

SalemWitchChild
04-20-2006, 06:49 AM
CountryChic,

I have been to several dog forums as well. I do agree you should feed what your dog will eat. Since posting this I have switched to Flint River Rance which isn't top of the line but close. I have noticed a difference! She's keeping more weight, building more muscle tone and she's playing more. I think most people believe you should not only do good by your pet, but excel at it. Kota was on Purina Beneful before. She does like it more.. My child likes junk food more but I don't let her eat that all the time either. :P

Whatever your decision is I know it will be for your pets best interest. Many dogs do not take to the all natural diet. But remember there are many different ones out there and many times you can get samples. I had to do that before decideing on FRR.

Lastly, don't take peoples nastyness to heart. You know what is right for your pet. Remember in one ear out the other..right..

countrychic10
04-20-2006, 09:06 AM
Thanx Salem! Its great to know that there are people who won't tear you apart because of what you decide to feed your pet.....although I would expect some sort of comment if I was feeding something like Ol' Roy...that stuff is terrible! My dogs have been doing great so far on Authority so I doubt I'll be changing any time soon. But I do have a question for anyone who has a suggestion.....I'm looking for a good quality dog food that has no more than 24% protein and a fat percentage around 13%. Its for my great dane puppy. Currently there is alot of debate on the feeding of giant breed dogs, but the one thing many reputable breeders and vetrinarians agree on is that they should not be given puppy formula and the protein and fat levels should be in the ranges I listed above. Anyone have any sugestions? Thanx!

audkal
04-20-2006, 09:13 PM
Countrychic, :D

(I know I already talked about Canidae on this site but....) Canidae's All Life Stages formula has 24% protein and 14.50% fat. Here's the link: http://canidae.com/dogs/all_life_stages/dry.html Also, since it's All Life Stages you won't have to switch to a different food when the puppy becomes an adult.

Juananz
01-08-2008, 10:03 AM
Sorry for "reviving" such and old topic, but I really have to finish with this doubt and I figured I could get some help here.

First of all, I'm new and I'm glad to be posting with you.


Chemical Preservatives: Chemical preservatives include butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA), butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), propyl gallate, propylene glycol (also used as a less-toxic version of automotive antifreeze), and ethoxyquin. BHA, BHT, and ethoxyquin are potentially cancer-causing agents. The long term build-up of these chemicals (that may be eaten every day for the life of your pet!) have not been thouroughly studied and may ultimately be harmful.

I have fed my dogs with Sportsman's Choice since I have use of reason and so far I've had five good fellows (two of them died).

The other dogs had lymphoma (one of them had to be put down and the other evaded it because she was too fat, who'd have thought? but died at 14).

I hadn't really had a reference on those type of chemicals, and I think there might be a connection between those and the food I'm giving them. My vet keeps telling me it's the worst I can give them because of the fat contents, but now I read about the preservatives, I think it might be because of something else.

I've always suggested (nearly demanded) my parents to change foods but they get a little too stubborn and tell me that food's fine (which I completely disagree).

I wonder if you could tell me whether these chemicals actually exist on that food (I don't have the paperbag at hand because it was disposed, so I can't have a look). That way my parents would have an excuse not to buy that again.

I'm upgrading my dogs' defenses so their white blood cells catch any cancer cells there might be, but if I can help them with a good brand of food, I'm willing to do it blindly...

For those of us who don't want our little brats to get cancer, I think we should upgrade their defenses, whether with food or vitamin pills.

bullmax
03-19-2008, 02:37 PM
Does anyone here knows about PROMINENCE Plus dog food? I would be interested to hear any feeback, who is producing it ect...¸
Thanks in advance,

celtechfarms
03-19-2008, 03:58 PM
I'm in Nova Scotia and I've never heard of it, where do you get it? Grocery, feed stores or vet clinics?

bullmax
03-20-2008, 06:27 AM
From my understanding it is sold only online at Quixtar. www.quixtar.com I might have the opportunity to buy it and was wondering if anyone had tried or known about it. I would also like to know which company makes this food for them. I'll search a bit more :wink:

celtechfarms
03-20-2008, 06:47 AM
Right, thats the group my sister and brother in law belonged to up till a couple months ago. I had the opertunity to change my dogs to it, my sister and I discussed it fully, comparing it to what we were feeding my dogs now, price, quality, customer apprication. But in the end we would have paid more of a very much infirior brand. The food was full of fillers and no where near the quality of what we were feeding then and couldn't stand up to what we're feeding now. If you haven't done so I would get an ingerdiant list on the food, its what I did. Right now we're feeding Cainid and its really good, the only brand I think I would feed over Cainid and I can't get it around here is Wellness.

Quixtar actually carries two different dog food brands, in my opinion, both are grocery store rate ingrediants and very over priced for what is in them. To avoid telling my sister how bad the food was I simply showed her how the price I would pay for her dog food would get me a bag three times that size in our dog food. infirior brand for a more expensive price is just not worth it.

bullmax
03-20-2008, 07:30 AM
Well, what you are saying is what I thought at first sight... and decided to still search before making a final decision.
It is real pricey, the list ingredients are not bad though.

PROMINENCE PLUS DOG FOOD /

CHICKEN MEAL &

BROWN RICE FORMULA

Crude Protein/Protéines brutes (% Minimum) 24 %

Crude Fat/Graisses brutes (% Minimum) 14 %

Crude Fibre/Fibres brutes (% Maximum) 4.5 %

Moisture/Humidité (% Maximum) 10 %

Vitamin/Vitamine A (Minimum) 22,000 IU/UI/kg

Vitamin/Vitamine E (Minimum) 150 IU/UI/kg

*Ascorbic Acid/*Acide ascorbique (Minimum) 30 mg/kg

*DHA (Minimum) 0.1 %

*Omega-6/*Oméga-6 (% Minimum) 3 %

*Omega-3/*Oméga-3 (% Minimum) 0.3 %

INGREDIENTS:

CHICKEN MEAL, BROWN RICE, FIELD PEAS, OAT GROATS,

CHICKEN FAT (PRESERVED WITH MIXED TOCOPHEROLS; A

SOURCE OF VITAMIN E), BEET PULP, DRIED WHOLE EGG,

FLAXSEED, CARROT POWDER, FISH OIL, CALCIUM

CARBONATE, SALT, APPLE POWDER, LECITHIN, DICALCIUM

PHOSPHATE, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, CHOLINE CHLORIDE,

INOSITOL, GLUCOSAMINE, ZINC SULPHATE, FERROUS

SULPHATE, KELP, YUCCA SCHIDIGERA EXTRACT, VITAMIN

SUPPLEMENTS (A, D, E), DL-METHIONINE, NIACIN, GARLIC,

CHAMOMILE, TOMATO POWDER (SOURCE OF LYCOPENE),

CRANBERRY EXTRACT, COPPER SULPHATE, ROSEMARY

EXTRACT, LUTEIN, CHONDROITIN SULPHATE, ASCORBIC

ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C), MANGANESE SULPHATE,

BLUEBERRY, CASSIA, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE,

RIBOFLAVIN, THIAMIN MONONITRATE, THYME, BIOTIN,

PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, SODIUM SELENITE, VITAMIN

B12, CALCIUM IODATE, JUNIPER, FOLIC ACID, MENADIONE

SODIUM BISULPHITE COMPLEX (SOURCE OF VITAMIN K

ACTIVITY).

I currently feed Technical Natural Blend and the girls love it! Shiny coats. They do very well on it and I rarely see my vet! :)
And I am telling myself, why change something that works???
Thanks for your inputs celtechfarms

ritabooker
03-20-2008, 09:41 AM
You can score the quality of your dog food by using the system on this link:
http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/ratingpetfood.htm

It takes a little time, but is well worth it.

It is not the last word on dog food as there are some details that are debatable as to how bad or good the ingredients are, but I use this grading system and have had good results with it.

I feed Canidae. Don't know if you have that available. There are lots of good foods out there.

bullmax
03-20-2008, 10:00 AM
I made the test for Prominence and it scored over 100+, if I did it good a 110.
Canidae is not yet available around here and I know lots of people have great results with their dogs.
Thanks for the link I will bookmark it in my list.

ritabooker
03-20-2008, 07:12 PM
You're very welcomed.

celtechfarms
03-22-2008, 09:18 AM
Must be a different food then, cause the stuff I looked at from Quixtar was filled with corn filler, that actually looks like a really good food.

Katty
11-21-2018, 12:35 AM
This topic is very important for me. I have rottweiler. They are very energetic and playful dogs. They should be fed at least 2,100 calories per day, with 22-26% whole protein with little to no grain. For me it's really hard to find dog food and store, with all required nutrients for optimal growth and development.
I read an article that food for rottweilers should contain supplements to sustain their active nature. I also read there that dogs don’t necessarily need corn barley, wheat, potatoes, or rice in their diet. You can see this (https://petstiger.com/best-dog-food-for-rottweiler/). But most dog food in store has nutrients in the indedient list! Also I found out how to count the size of portion depending on weight. It should be about 2-3% of its body weight. Mine for example is weighing 120 pounds, then the ideal amount would be 2.4 to 3.6 pounds per day. That's a lot!!! And the more active he is, the bigger portion you'll need. If you bought for example 30-pound bag of food, you will be able to feed your rottie on an average of 12 days. His diet should bring him energy while at the same time prevent him from growing obese. Besides a good rottie food product should contain healthy fruits, vegetables, and prebiotics.