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APHAHorse
07-22-2005, 01:24 PM
I have a 4 year old APHA stud that I just can't keep weight on. I've tried feeding him all sort of things form lowering the % of grain he gets to raising it to 16% and even tried mare and foal pellets. I also have added oats, alfalfa pellets and a couple other things (can't remeber what they where). This has been goin on since I bought him as a yearling, he was under wight then but he put some on where he was looking good and then he started to loose it again. I've had the vet check him and he couldn't find anything wrong. He's on a good worming program. He's been on sand clear, he came from a very sandy place and he ate sand like if it was food. I've tried weight builder and for the first time it didn't work. I also had him on solid alfalfa hay for a while and it didn't help. He's not being ridden. He dosn't run up and down the fence line or have anyother studdish behaviors that would cuase him being so skinny. This battle has been going on for 3 years and I just can't seem to fix it. Does anyone have any ideas?

kerryclair
07-22-2005, 05:51 PM
Sorry, I don't know what to suggest here except maybe his system needs to be cleaned out from all that sand. I understand sand can be extremely dangerous to a horse digestive system...

Keep us posted..

paulandashia
07-28-2005, 07:17 PM
Wow... I know some horses are hard keepers, but yours sounds exceptionally hard...
Have you tried moistening the food? Making a Mush? Adding bread and apples and all kinds of goodies to the mix.?
Try confining him in a smaller stall for a while so he doesn't run around and burn off the calories. Just because you don't see him running, doesn't mean he's not... :)
Hmmm...
I will ask a friend of mine who is an expert, and see if she has some suggestions.
I'll post later with what she said... :)

paulandashia
07-28-2005, 07:21 PM
Oh, also, you might want to have his teeth looked at... They might need some work... We had a horse at the ranch that lost a LOT of weight, because she couldn't chew her food properly... Contrary to popular belief, it's not only OLD horses that have Dental issues... Gypsie was only 3-4 years old, and a tiny little thing....
The Owner of the ranch called a Vet, and when he came out to file her teeth and gave her a tranqualizer shot, she was so weak, that she died at the hitching post.... It was Very sad....

aislynn43
08-26-2005, 09:13 AM
have you tried beet pulp? It was the only thing that worked on a very old, very skinny quarter pony I cared for once. It is best to soak it in lots of water for a few hours first. That and feed him lots of roughage. Good Luck!

celtechfarms
11-21-2005, 01:55 PM
What kind of wormer are you using? Does he lose it right after being wormed? Beware of certain wormers, if they correspond, around here our nutritionist is currently treating hundreds of horses classified as quest gel horses because of the deadly reaction they have, like kids to peanuts. Let us know how its going. If it is the quest then you'll need to change his food to hifat and fiber feed, it digests diffrently and works at putting weight back on quest horses when nothing else works.

Jenmm
11-21-2005, 04:19 PM
ill start with wormer

MOXIDECTIN is expected to cause physiological problems ina health horse at 5 times the effective dose. meaning if you give your horse 5 times the recommended dose you can expect to see prob. or the horse die. MOXIDECTIN is the least safe of any commercial wormer. there are reports of it killing horses who were in marginal condition, undernourished and/ or alittle weak, also foals.


IVERMECTIN ( zimecterin, equalan, rotectin1, euimectrin, invermin,ect) is not expected to cause problems until 60 times the effective dose given.

OXIBENDAZOLE (anthelcide eq and others) is not expected to cause problems until 60 times the effective doseis given

FENBENDAZOLE (Panacur, safeguard) may cause problems at over 100-200 times the effective dose, although apparently when testingfor side effects from fenbendazole, the researchers had difficulty producing any problems at all at any amout of OD

PYRANTEL PAMOATE( strongid p, strongid t rotectin 2) is safe for healthy horse at up to 20 times the effective dose

QUEST clames to kill bot larvae, encysted (small strongyle larvae) But FENBENDAZOLE givenat double dose to the horses weight for 5 days in a row will also kill encysted and is much safer for your horse. As for botts IVERMECTIN does a great job and is much safer then MOXIDECTIN.


INVERMECTIN kills 34 parasited species & stages 6 bot species

MOXIDECTIN kills 22 parasited species & stages 2 bot species

PYRANTEL PAMOATE kills 6 parasited species & stages

OXIBENDAZOLE kills 7-12 parasited species & stages, depending on brand

FENBENDAZOLE kills 5 parasited species & stages


Remember to change Meds not brand names INVERMECTIN, MOXIDECTIN kill one way, PYRANTEL PAMOATE kills another, OXIBENDAZOLE, FENBENDAZOLE kills another. and PRAZIQUANTEL commen to the dog world but new to horse is use for type it comes mix with INVERMECTIN,or MOXIDECTIN Zimecterin Gold and Equimax has INVERMECTIN/PRAZIQUANTEL and is safe. Quest plus and combocare have MOXIDECTIN/PRAZIQUANTEL and use with care

Hope this helps in regards to wormer

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I would recommend Nutrena's new SAFECHOICE feed. It is a 7% fat pelleted feed, designed to reduce the risk of colic and laminitis, plus it supplies some highly digestible fiber sources so critical with our
poorer hay this year. It may help reduce the hay bellies- we tend to
feed more hay in the winter,it is causing those fat bellies due to the slower digestion.

SAFECHOICE also contains the following- biotin, 3 different amino acids
(lysine, methionine, threonine) selenium, high Vitamin E levels, yeast,
probiotics, and fat sources from corn oil. I wouldn't recommend mixing
it or feeding another supplement with it- I would start with 1/2 to 3/4
lb per 100 lbs of body weight, you will need to weigh in your scoop as
it will weigh a little different.

Best part- the suggested retail price on a 50
lb bag of SAFECHOICE is $9.29-9.49-

Here is the website link for SAFECHOICE- double click below
http://www.nutrenaworld.com/Screens/BrandListing.aspx?BrandID=89

Hope this info helps,

Nicole

celtechfarms
11-21-2005, 06:49 PM
I definitly agree with the warning for Quest after giving it to our completely healthy stallion at a boarding stable, I was not there when they wormed him, but the result was catasrophic. He ran a thick strong manuar that reaked through the barn, it ran like liquid for days and days on end, this is a horse that was wormed every six months. He lost over five hundred pounds in approximatly a week, going from a healthy happy stallion to a starving bag of bones.

Over the next year we fought to put the weight back on, hay he ate like it went out of style, feed was eaten with the regular vigor, (bugger left behind all corn, don't know how.) Nothing worked, even milk, he thought we were trying to poison him. Finily after close to a year the stable owner had an equine nutritionist out to look at our horses. He thought the stallion was a rescue, but on further questioning he found out about the Quest and proceeded to tell us about the Quest Horses, about the deaths, and lose of foals, about how horses having reactions would lose the weight and their coats and die withing a week, normally with in 72 hours of being given this wormer.

He was shocked to hind our boy still had a thick coat, apparently it strips the horses ability to digest fat and fiber properly, and in doing so feeding did nothing, he could eat as much as he wanted and get no weight because of the fact he couldn't digest it. He was placed on fat and fiber, at that time a new feed, specificly developed for this type of problem and finily he started putting his weight back on.

So thats our horror story, our feed stores wont carry it anymore because of this and we are greatful and will never ever use this drug again, you'll notice they have lost alot of their advertised backers too because of it.

Jenmm
11-21-2005, 07:37 PM
just remember it is not just Quest it is the MOXIDECTIN in the quest it is also carried in combocare so both quest and combocare have MOXIDECTIN in it. so please dont use eather of the 2 wormers

kerryclair
11-30-2005, 11:17 PM
What do you all think of worming in general? There is really a ton of data out there that says worming is largely UNNECEESARY for a healthy horse.

Thoughts?

Jenmm
12-01-2005, 12:39 AM
I feel worming is very important but can be over done. I feel if there is good pasture management, all horses wormed at the same time I don't feel you should have to worm as often as some one who boards and worming is done by the owner. there are things that can help min. the amount of worming that needs to be done like not spreading manure in the pasture, cleaning and cutting down the pasture having goats or sheeps to share or alternate pastures.
but for those of use who board most BM spread the manure in the pastures or simply don't do pasture maintenance. witch makes worming very important. with out regular worming a horse can become heavy with worms and this can cause many problems. over worming can also cause probs. too. we all know about wormers becoming ineffective. over worming can do this. my conclusions is that I don't think there is a right answer to this question... but if the vet has to come out one of the first questions is when your horse was wormed last, when a horse is colicing, itchy, lose of weight, and poor coat and I am sure others.
I think it is important but can be unnecessary i feel the spring and fall are the most importent times to worm, a cool wet summer is importent, a hot dry summer is less importent, but if a horse is in a crouded pasture....

i dont know that is a hard one :lol: i worm every 2 months, but i board my horses out and they are pastured with a hurd and some do not worm there horses... so i feel it is importent for "them" to be wormed.

on the other hand i have goats at home and they get wormed 2x a year start of spring, start of winter. but i control there pasture and they are worm "free" :wink:

loved the question got me thinking why i do what i do and even though that maybe i was over doing the worming. can wait to hear what everyone else thinks......

celtechfarms
12-01-2005, 07:54 AM
I believe worming is important and have boarded as well as kept at home, but I also live in Canada where we have 3 months of snow and six of close to freezing tempuratures. The closest my wormings have ever been was 6 months, once in early spring and once in early fall. Wow every two months, thats alot for up here. Two wormings a year work great up here.

Jenmm
12-01-2005, 10:18 AM
i live in wny we have the cold cold temps but not always if we have long periods of cold or heat. like this year i wormed less. so far this winter we have had about 3 days of the ground being frozen and scince mixed rain and snow.
thay were wormed in the first week of oct. i am now waiting for the ground to freeze again it should in the next week or so. after that the ground "should" stay frozen till about march and i will worm again after the ground starts to defrost. we will then have on and off frezing and unfreezing till about june when it will stay wet till the end of july and then the hole thing starting again. i also board were people do not worm and they are on 24/7 pasture. the BO also spareds freash manuer over the pasture. everyone in this area worms evey 6-8 weeks and it is recomended by all the vets in this area. they also recomend the daily wormer but i think this is to much. however with the daily wormer you only use the paste 2x a year.
but when my shelter is repared and my fences are up they are coming home!!! :D and then worming will not be evey 2 months. i really dont like putting all the cemicals in them and some times worry about it. see my delema?
what part of canada are you from? sounds colder then here :)

celtechfarms
12-03-2005, 07:54 AM
I'm on the east coast of Canada, Nova Scotia actually, and they tell us this winter is going to be warm and rainy.