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DogMom
05-31-2007, 10:10 AM
(Country, thought you'd like this).

I got this from a website that has a LOT of excellent info about feeding RAW and BARF (for ALL types of animals).

http://www.katberard.com/hol_bonesandfood.htm

You no longer need a cup of coffee in the morning, the smell of fresh tripe is more than enough to wake you up! I wonder if Folger's could make their coffee just smell like that?

∞ You can accurately identify the inner anatomy of a cow. even ground up or in little pieces

∞ Your dogs have a meal that you can take pride in. Your family, on the other hand is eating fish sticks and Kraft macaroni and cheese! Pizza, anyone?

∞ Your vet is jealous of what your dogs eat. For that matter so are your friends, coworkers and family! I am too, think sometimes of just splitting the meal in half and cooking some for me!

∞ You have alienated 99% of vets in your area. for more reasons than one...

∞ You have bored your family to death with the virtues of your dogs eating raw. and friends, coworkers, ex-friends, etc.

∞ You drive past some roadkill on the highway and wonder if your dogs could eat it. it hasn't been there that long!

∞ You have always condemned hunting, now you wonder if your dogs would like some tasty venison. rabbit, squirrel, goose, woodchuck, anything else we love to hunt but don't care to eat.

∞ Half your kitchen equipment is devoted to making dog food. more like 3/4 of them

∞ You are scanning in pictures of your dog's dinner in order to lure in more converts! http://www.auntjeni.com/barf.htm

∞ You no longer buy cars based on how many dogs it can fit, but how many pounds of meat it can carry. we have had it up to 160!

∞ You have an extremely large freezer devoted solely to your dog's food. $149.00 at Menard's

∞ You have tried to talk your butcher into getting involved with the air miles program. (might as well!) I remember the talk I had with the lady at Merindorf! "you should have a frequent buyer program for animal parts, and leftovers!"

∞ You have more mileage racked up on getting bulk dog food ingredients than you for work. well, not really, but it is close

∞ Touching raw meat is no longer a horrible chore. not after what I have seen

∞ Your dogs friends look at your dogs with envy! they should...look at their coats

∞ All the people in your dog park have permanently labeled you as "That Whacko Who Feeds Their Dogs Raw Meat!" typical

∞ You wear that label with pride. very typical

∞ You give lectures at the human supermarket when you see someone picking up a bag of Kibbles 'n Bits! in your mind, you say all the things that you have learned over the years, and quote as much as you can think of from various books and sites. But in reality, you simply say "oh, you feed that to your dog?"

∞ You show your 7 year old dog's teeth to everyone! and are proud of the health of your puppies' teeth, even though they will fall out shortly. but you keep them around and bring them out of your pocket when you are talking to strangers about the BARF diet.

∞ You carry a lamp with you to REALLY show how shiny your dog's coat is. now how practical is this? try a high powered flashlight

∞ You have a whole cabinet of supplements and none of them are for you. or they originally started for you, until one of the lists that you are on proved that it was good for your dog, and you quit taking them so that you could use them for your dog.

∞ You have found a new creative use for sledgehammers, hacksaws and Ginsu knives! what else are these for except for butchering meat for your dog?

∞ You shove your dog's fresh stools under your neighbor's nose just to show them how small they really are! <no>

∞ You go to the Health Food Store and none of the things you buy there are for you. you stop on the way home and get McDonald's for dinner for yourself

∞ When your mom cleans out your fridge, she throws out half of your weekly pre-prepared food. in my fridge there is no other food than what is for the dog.

∞ Some of your greatest accomplishments include how many people you have converted from Science Diet to raw. and how many pet store clerks you have talked into the raw diet, and now carry more raw diet friendly food in their store.

∞ Your husband starts picking out raw bones from the supermarket freezer and asks if it's okay. now that is just sexist

∞ You get some mighty strange looks at the checkout counter at your grocery. how many times have to just looked back and said, "it's for my dog!"

∞ You get into a technical debate about the nutritional value of organic cow patties. with a farmer who you think has eaten them himself (sorry, no offense, but I have been there!)

∞ Suddenly the thought of your dog eating cow patties isn't so revolting. if he will do it, why not for my dog

∞ Your good non-dog friends have started to resist your dogs kisses. and those on the diet start accepting them

∞ You pick fresh strawberries in 100 degree heat, knowing that half of them are being frozen for the dogs. and eat only half of the greatest steak you have ever tried, just so you can let your dog try it too ∞

countrychic10
05-31-2007, 11:52 AM
LMAO!! :lol: I can relate to many of those! Especially the people at the supermarket check out looking at me like a total freak & the words 'It's for my dog" are spoken without even thinking now.

Though I don't have a million supplements for the critters..I keep those to a very minimal amount. And no way in he** would I go out and pick strawberries for my dogs! lol That's my favorite snack and there's no way I would share them...lol (Not that my dogs would eat them anyways..)

And for the most part my family eats healthy..I try to keep the "junk" to a minimum... :)

Thanks for posting..I definately got a laugh out of it :) :)

celtechfarms
06-01-2007, 07:52 AM
Thats too, lol, I didn't know dogs could eat strawberries healthly, dose that make sence? I love strawberries too, every year when summer comes, I make myself sick with them, and hate sharing them with my kids, lol. More for me :D I figured feeding strawberries to my dogs would do the samething as feeding blueberries, which by the way my dogs love I got in so much trouble for feeding my boy blueberries by my vet, so now I just keep the berries for me. Anyway, on that track of thought, my baby is filling her diaper, if its not the dogs I'm cleaning up after its the kids... lol.

DogMom
06-01-2007, 11:07 AM
I know, I didn't think any kind of berry was healthy for a dog.....and for the longest of time I didn't know grapes/raisins weren't either. When we first got our big dog she would not eat anything except Peanut Butter and jelly sandwiches--and she inhaled them like they were going out of style. It eventually worked out where if I put the sandwich crumbled in a bowl of food she'd eat all of it. But if I put a sandwich in one bowl and food in the other she wouldn't touch the food. haha and on the same note, her favorite cookies are and always have been oreo's. I was a first time pet owner when I got her and didn't know chocolate wasn't good but it wasn't like I threw a bowl of oreo's down for her. She got one, maybe two, every once in a blue moon. Then I learned chocolate was bad so switched to oatmeal/raisin cookies and learned raisin's were bad!! Now she just gets oatmeal cookies. LMAO Guess that's another one for the feeding raw list--when you no longer get upset the last few cookies in the batch don't get any chocolate chips or raisins!!! I don't care anymore--those are the ones that go to the dogs. LOL

countrychic10
06-01-2007, 11:52 AM
LOL..I have no clue if strawberries are healthy for dogs, but of course my opinion goes they are completely unnesssary for them :) :)

Celtech...starwberries were on sale here recently...they were going for about $1.09 per pound were as they are usually around $3.00 per pound. Needless to say I stocked up....lol and even when I had tons I hated sharing!! lol I know, I know, I'm evil. :twisted:

As far as dogs liking bad stuff...Blue loves Rasins and even got poisioned from them a while back.

My mom's GSD who has passed on used to LOVE onions!! It was so gross to watch as she would get whole onions and eat the entire thing.....dunno how she could stand it and it was all my mom could do to keep her away from them...

DogMom
06-01-2007, 01:17 PM
YES that's the other thing my big girl loved! I make a pot roast with onion soup mix, fresh onions and then smother it with cream of mushroom soup and let it cook. Man, don't walk away from your plate cause she'd eat all she could. And this wasn't something normal--I mean, she's not normally fed table scraps and if she is it's put right in her dish. Anytime you offer her a plate of food she won't touch it til it's in her dish. Except of course the roast with the onions and mushrooms. I never told her no but I do now. But she knows when it's cooking cause her tail wags a million miles a minute.

DogMom
06-04-2007, 07:01 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

hahahahaha I did it, I got "caught" being a RAW feeder and didn't even realize it. I stopped at the meat counter to ask if they had any beef hearts and if not if they could order some for me. Then he said, "if you don't mind my asking, what do you need beef heart for?" And I kinda chuckled a little bit and said it was for dog food. Then he noticed in my cart all the "oddball" foods I was buying and asked if all of it was dog food. And I said aside from the hamburger patties, yeah. And he goes "sweet!!!"

And then laughed at how my dogs eat better than he does.

And even funnier yet, a couple people stopped to ask me if feeding RAW was really safe and I told them what was in my opinion and everything I've learned over the years but said overall, for the most part, it's (in my opinion) a lot safer than kibble. So then a few of them asked what goes "in" my dog food and, for one lady, wondered if it'd be alright for her smaller dogs.

WAY TOO FUNNY!!!!! What a riot!!!!

So I ran to the store for some dog food for the night and came home with a list of names and addresses or email addy's to send dog food recipes too.

And as I put stuff away I realized I forgot quite a few ingredients!!!!

countrychic10
06-04-2007, 08:38 PM
LOL ;D

Wanna know what's bad...being married to a smart@**. :D

I always get weird looks when I have a cart full of kidneys, necks, hearts ect. ect.

On more than one occasion we were in the checkout and the cashier and woman behind us were giving us that "OMG what freaks look"

To make matters worse DH says

"Aww don't worry...let these puppies get to room temp and throw some hot some on 'em and they make a mighty fine snack...hell my wife here goes through these beef kidneys like you wouldn't believe!"

Talk about embarrassing!!!!!!! lol The woman behind us actually went to a different cashier and our cashier rang us quicker than I thought was humanly possible......LOL

Bonus..if I ever wanna speed things up I can just bring DH along to embarass me... :roll: :wink:

celtechfarms
06-05-2007, 04:30 AM
I got one quesRAW feeders, how much approximately, do you spend on feeding your dogs, say in a month?

DogMom
06-05-2007, 07:43 AM
I would say I spend around $40 a month on meat and $20 on a bag of kibble (I use the meat more as a supplement). But mine eat a meat mix more than anything else--(ground beef, ground turkey, fresh veges, total cereal, oatmeal, hearts and livers and some other odd ball ingredients). And then they also get a leg quarter every other day (meat mix one day, leg the next). But one of my meat markets is incredible on prices--for 10 lbs of ground turkey and ground beef I pay roughly $1 per pound. And at the same place, leg quarters are usually around 37 cents each (so for $5 I get 12 leg quarters). And occasionally I'll throw a couple "treats" in there--like turkey necks which are usually pretty cheap anyway but last night I bought a 2 lb pack of them for $1.22 and I also got some boneless beef ribs, a pack of 6 for 52 cents.

So anyway. Hubby and I had this talk last night, he was saying that spending $40 a month on dog food is ridiculous. But he failed to consider that when they get meat, they eat less than half the kibble they eat not getting meat. So if I just bought kibble, I'd spent $60 to $80 a month on that. But with meat I spend $40 and the kibble at the bottom of the bowl I spend $20 for the month.

(PS My cats are also eating a raw diet and I probably spend about $25 on kibble and $24 on meat a month whereas on wet canned food I was spending closer to $30 a month--so still almost breaking even but the raw food is less risky of kidney failure due to some chemical I've never heard of--LOL)

celtechfarms
06-05-2007, 10:53 AM
K, couple more questions, lol, see, one answer arises more questions, how big is your dog, weight wise, for ideal weight, and when you feed fowl, do you debone it? Particularly the turkey necks?

countrychic10
06-05-2007, 12:24 PM
Hey there...

I feed a strictly meat, bone and organ diet RAW diet..sometimes called prey model by those who wanna sound nifty :)

Anywho...General rule of thumb on amounts to feed is 2% - 3% of their ideal body weight. If it's a growing puppy this amount can be up to 10% of their ideal adult weight.

This is just a guideline though and some dogs eat less or more depending on activity and such. Blue..my Weimaraner weights in at about 89 pounds. Each day he eats about 1 1/2 pounds of food. During hunting season when he works the feild he may go up to about 2 pounds per day and DH takes some frozen satin balls out with them as well.

Brutus who is a year old and just a few pounds shy of the 200 lb mark keeps a healthy, ideal body weight on about 3 pounds of food per day. Now for a 2 month time period when he was about 6 months old I fed almost 6 pounds of meat per day to that goof! lol Thankfully once that growth slowed down his food portions when back to normal amounts. :)

My mom's Rottie female who is going through a growth spurt right now (about 5 months old) is eating about 2 pounds per day also..and once she's done growing I doubt she'll need more than 2 pounds daily to keep an ideal body weight.

On this issue of fooul..heck no I don't debone it. Bones from turkey and chicken are the most pliable and the easiest for the body to break down...and afterall that is the main sourse of calcium and such in a RAW diet so you don't wanna get rid of it. :)

I feed turkey backs, chicken backs, turkey legs and thighs, whole chickens, leg quarters....all of it with the bones.

When starting out on a RAW diet it is generally easier to start with chicken backs for the first week or so..gets them used to it and the soft bones keep the stoll from being mush.

Here is a great site that explains the how to's of it all..even has shopping tips and a sample menu:

http://www.eastwooddanes.com/Getting-Started-101.htm

http://www.eastwooddanes.com/SampleMenu.html

http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm

The two sites from the Dane pages are my fav. The woman who owns the site breeds some beautiful Blue Great Danes and has fed RAW for ages...even weans all her puppies onto raw meat, bones and organs starting at 3 weeks of age. She was a big help to me when I was getting started with RAW..Plus if you just wanna watch a mess load of adorable Blue puppies on her puppy page she has lots of videos....can't stand watching them because it makes me want one sooo bad! :)

Now as far as price goes......the first month I fed RAW I did spend a bit more on food. Once I finally figured out WHAT items to shop for, and WHERE to buy them and HOW to order cases and such though my food bill dropped drastically!

I can't really say a per month price since I usually buy in bulk and my mom and I spilt it. Also I get freebies from the game processors and such...love it when I get free venison! :) ..I know the last time mom & I ordered together for 3 months worth of food for a Great Dane, 2 Weimaraners, A rottie pup, a lab and a Shit Zue it was around $330. But this cost was spilt since I only own 2 of the dogs and the rest are my mom & brothers. I also don't do supplement...I give fish oil twice a week, and I keep Ester C handy if I have a Dane pup going flat on it's feet but other than that nothing. Just good ol' meat, bones and organs make up the bulk of their diet :)

celtechfarms
06-05-2007, 12:39 PM
The reason I sasked about I have been warned not to feed a rottweiler Turkey neck, simply because its the same size as the esophagus and will choke your dog when it gets stuck part way down.

countrychic10
06-05-2007, 03:13 PM
The turkey necks I buy are whole...usually the way the dogs eat them is they lay down and chew them up from one end to the other. No large hunks are ever taken off that they could choke on....the whole necks are quite a work out for a dog the size of a Great Dane...and I seriously doubt he could swallow them whole....I have seen cut turkey necks, and some smaller necks sometimes come in my packages, these are usually given to my mom's smaller dogs.

Arazante
06-05-2007, 07:39 PM
I've been having a heck of a time trying to get a "recipe" or solid list of foods to feed KC for RAW. I have bought some chicken thighs that were antibiotic free and no hormones to play it safe and I managed to get him to eat some raw egg yolk for the vitamins, but I had to mix it with his Felidae kibble. I so badly want to go full RAW, but I just don't have the resources. They got a new HEB here, as if it's so grand, but the meat section, despite it being long, is still so one-sided: beef, beef, beef, steak, beef, steak, oh yeah, steak and beef. Then I felt a bit intimidated by some of the recipes I read up on that required a meat grinder. I've never dealt with one of those things.. I'm a vegetarian.

Seriously I just have to remind myself of the recall list, then I'm typing in "RAW for cats" on google because I just worry one day, his food will be up there.

DogMom
06-05-2007, 08:23 PM
Here's a pretty simple one I used to feed my dogs. This would be considered a BARF diet though (because of the added vegie's). When I fed this I also fed turkey backs and necks. Anyway--hope it helps somewhat.

5 lbs of raw meat (chopped or ground) NO PORK (raw pork is known to cause tape worms)

2 cups brown rice.

All or any combination of FRESH Vegetables (carrots, broccoli spears, yams, sweet potatos, cauliflower, celery, corn-any kind of vegetable you can get).

One bulb garlic

(I have added 2 raw eggs to this in the past as well as 2 envelopes of Knox gelatin).

NOTE: The fiber you add (veggies, rice, garlic) should be 25% of the amount of meat mixture, i.e. to 5 lbs of meat, add about 1˝ lbs fiber foods

TO PREPARE:

Cook the rice (brown rice helps regulate stools as greeny vegetables can be a diarhetic), finely chop or shred the vegetables (sometimes certain vegetables are harder to digest in some breeds so finely chopping or shredding them will help your pet digest them easier, you can also steam them for a short period of time), chop the bulb of garlic (garlic is a natural remedy for arthritis and other minor aches and pains and it aids in the digestive track. Garlic is also a good flea remedy),

Combine all these ingredients in a large bowl or pan with the 5 lbs of raw meat and thoroughly mix together (you’ll feel like you’re making a big, colorful meat loaf).

countrychic10
06-06-2007, 08:12 AM
Hey Arazante, have you looked at Honest Kitchen's dehydrated RAW foods?? My SIL has the total creep outs about raw meat but she orders this for her new cat and he seems to do fine on it

I have thought about ordering some for my dogs to keep with me when I take them out of town...especailly to my grandparents because they don't have much freezer space and I hate shopping in unfamilar territory (they live in Alabama) :) It isn't strict RAW like what I feed, but I can tolerate them having some veggie stuff every now and then...that is if mine will eat it :)

DogMom
06-07-2007, 08:30 AM
Hey Country--how do you feel about a strict chicken diet for a large breed dog? I have one that doesn't seem too interested in anything else. I understand that it'd probably be better than straight kibble but is chicken all the time okay? Let's see--three nights ago I offered chicken backs, liver, and a meat/vege mix--and she ate the chicken back but nothing else. Then two nights ago I did chicken liver and turkey necks and huge pieces of beef ribs--and she turned it down. Both nights after she refused that stuff I put more chicken backs out and she ate them fine. Then last night I did beef liver, chicken backs and chicken thighs and she ate the chicken but not the liver. I don't know why she's doing this. I only make the meat mix (which is kind of combination between the Satin Balls and the mix I gave the recipe to above) because she loves it. And the turkey necks and livers--man, she used to LOVE them. As she did beef, she was BIG on beef. Now, table scraps, no problem. We had steak for dinner last night and I let her have what was left on the kids' plates and she ate them without thinking. But then whatever night or two before I put beef in her dish (raw) and she refused it. So would it be better to just offer her chicken for awhile or chicken and boiled beef?

And what's your opinion on feeding gizzards? I'm just curious as to why no one ever says anything about them as part of a feed. And what are your thoughts on pork? I've read for years and been told all the time to never ever feed pork at all yet now a days I'm finding websites that say pork is okay as long as it's fully cooked and the site I linked to from you yesterday say raw pork was okay. Again, just curious to your thoughts.

countrychic10
06-07-2007, 09:15 AM
As far as the one animal protein thing (i.e chicken) I wouldn't want to feed just one animal to my critters. Though if I had to choose between kibble and nothing but chicken it's obvious what I would choose..lol :wink:

Blue does this sometimes too...basically he's being a spoiled brat and saying he wants nothing but meat type X. When he does this I offer say Beef. If he doesn't eat it within 15-20 minutes, I pick up the dish and put it away. Next meal time rolls around and I do it again. Eventually he will see that he's gonna eat what's there or he's going to skip meal time :) It's just like a kid who refuses to eat anything but pudding (my 4 year old did this) You just gotta put your foot down unless you want to forever cater to what the dog wants. I personally don't like spoiled kids or pets..lol

Now there are some things they just flat out do not like and I don't force those things (on kids and dogs..lol) Like Blue hates whole, raw fish...I think he would rather die before eating it..so i don't make him. But when it is to a point where he will only eat 1 item, I draw the line and he figures out he better get over it..lol

I feed gizzards too. My cat REALLY loves these and chicken hearts so I buy packs just for him, but the dogs eat them too...it's just a muscle meat and no problem in feeding it.

On pork...I feed pork about 3 or four times a week. Favorite pork items in this house are pork necks...I usually buy the whole ones..each weight about 3 pounds and they are nice and meaty. I rarely buy the cut ones unless they are covered in lots of meat and are large sized pieces.

Raw pork feet and tails make good chewy items too. Slabs of pork ribs and pork roast are fed here as well. Obviously I don't cook any of them and I have never had a problem. I feed not only store bought pork, but local farm raised and even wild boar when I can get it.

A cheap way to buy pork (and beef too)...where ever you order your meats ask them if they can get beef and pork trimmings for you. This is the meat left after they carve up roast and trim pork chops and such. You get lots of fat (which is good if you have a poor keeper in the house) but you also get lots of meat..especially if you ask for meatier trimmings.

I can get by with lots of meaty chunks of beef for about $0.97 - $1.09 per pound doing it that way..where as I can't even buy ground beef for that price.

Another good pork item..at Wal-Mart I buy those shoulder roast for right at a $1.00 per pound. I trim off meat in big chunks and freeze it it feed with chicken backs or turkey necks later. And I leave a lot of meat still on that bone. I give one meaty bone to Blue and Brutus and it gives them a great work out and they LOVE it.

Dave
09-08-2008, 09:52 AM
We had a lot of trouble with our Cairn which seem to be down to diet, so we switched to a semi-raw diet that seem to suit her very well.

For a detailed account of her diet change have a look at her case history which I wrote up at the suggestion of her vet. She said that diet and bladder stones are closely connected.

A 'raw' diet and Bladder Stones -

http://bladderstones.googlepages.com/hannah

We did not give bones as bone fragments caused so many problems - ask any vets. Hannah was given bones by my mother who always gave her dogs bones, and as a result the vet had to remove bone splinters from Hannah's rectum when she suffered agony trying to pass her stools. I have those splinters to this day. They are flakes and very sharp - not funny !