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View Full Version : Cattle wormer for dogs???? Ivomec???



countrychic10
07-09-2006, 09:41 AM
Hi! I was doing some research on heartworms last night and stummbled across this website. I currently have a rescue dane in my house that tested a weak positive for heartworms and is currently being treated.
This site recommend people to use Ivomec as a heartworm preventative. I have used Ivomec before in my family's angus cattle but I would be extremly leary of using it in canines. How do these people determine the proper dosage for canines when the product was made for cattle?? They also have a deworming section and they suggest that you buy the Sheep wormer Safe-Guard. I have used Safe-Guard that is made for canines before, but once again I have the same question....how do they determine the proper dosage??? Just curious if anyone else does this and what everyone's thoughts are about this. Personally, even if I had testominals from people who use it I just couldn't do it. I just don't think it's safe for people to medicate their dogs if they don't know exactly what they are doing. Anywho...here's the link.

http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/beaglehealth_canineheartworms.htm

JustAnotherDogLover
07-09-2006, 11:58 AM
Never heard of it or tried but I might bring it up with my vet next time I see him (in a few days).

I have used cattle antibiotics on my dogs though; amoxy to be exact. A lot of times I know the problem and an anti is neccessary. The pet store I purchase antibiotics at will give the dose for a dog (or cat). They have a couple vets "on hand" because they deal mostly with what would be otherwise prescription medications or vet needed tests (such as an at home heartworm kit they sell for $10).

It would be interesting if this works though. At this same store I can buy a tube of ivermectin paste for $2.99 (one tube treats 1250 lbs). But you're right, how would you decide the correct dose?

But I'll print this article out and bring it up with my vet, see his opinion on it.

countrychic10
07-09-2006, 12:50 PM
Well, I contacted a Dane breeder that I have known for years and that I trust, and she says that is exactly what she uses and has been using for about 6 years! She laughed and asked "How else do you think I provide heartworm prevention for 8 Great Danes?" She did however point out that she never, ever starts this with out first getting them tested for heartworm by the vet, plus she prefers to get a vet weight on the dogs so her dosage is more accurate. She also said that if the dog is heartworm positive, then you should NEVER try to treat it yourself...always seek a vet's advice and care when dealing with a dog that is heartworm positive.

The dose she has always used is 1/10 of 1cc for each 10 lbs of body weight. She buys the 1% injectable cattle wormer, but gives the dose orally not by injection. I posted a link from where she buys hers..it's the first link listed. The second link is a different forum that discusses Ivomec use with canines.

I talked to my step-brother who is a 4th year vet student and he compared the 2 of them..he said both Heartguard and Ivomec are the same thing which is Ivermectin. In his opinion since you dose this according to every 10 lbs you get a more accuate dosage. For example, on Heartguard Plus, I buy the pack that is for 51-100 lbs for my 68 lb Great Dane puppy. If it has enough for 100 lbs, wouldn't it be a bit more than needed for the 50 lb dog??

*Please let me note, that me or any of the people I have spoken with are actually vets (yet) so don't try this without researching and speaking to some knowledgeable people first. I just brought this up for conversation and to hear other people's thoughts*

A very good friend of my Grandpa's is a vet, and was my family's vet since I was a child. He retired 3 years ago so he is no longer in practice :cry: ...his son has since taken over the office. I am going to talk to him about this and see what his thoughts are before I consider anything. I trust him very much and I know he wouldn't steer me wrong. He will however give me the usual lecture "Crystal..I retired for a reason...so why do you still call me??...ok, ok I will answer your question, but then you better let me get back to sleep" (exact words from a conversation I had with him at 12 midnight, when I had a scare with my dog...lol) I am not going to talk to the vet I am currently buying from because I know he will say no, just for the simple fact he looses the $160 per month that I am currently spending on HeartGuard! So I guess I will keep everyone posted on what I find out. And if anyone else knows anything about this please let me know. I want to hear all the good and all the bad. Thanks

http://www.revivalanimal.com/category.asp_Q_c_E_580_A_name_E_Parasite%20Control

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/farmlife/msg0713514016840.html

JustAnotherDogLover
07-09-2006, 06:42 PM
I wonder if the paste that my store sells would work the same as injection; since they're both given orally.

This is interesting. With how many dogs we get in monthly and living in such a high mosquito climate, this could serve useful to us. The heartworm testing isn't a problem, considering it's only $15 at the vet. But the cost of Heartguard and giving it to as many dogs as we do is just ridiculous. That money could be used on other things (like more toys and balls) [[grinning ear to ear]]

countrychic10
07-09-2006, 06:53 PM
I don't know about the paste. So far the only thing I have found is about the Ivomec injectable 1% solution that is given orally. The dosage is 1/10 of 1 cc per 10 lbs of body weight. If it is legitimate...that would be a big savings. A 50 cc bottle cost around $30-$50. To treat a 100 lb dog that would take 1 cc. So you could treat a 100 lb dog for 50 months for about $50......did I do my math right? lol It was always my worst subject. If that's correct the savings are huge! I spend around $100+ per month for my dogs! Plus the dosage would be more accurate in my opinion. I buy the box that is labled "Treats dogs from 51lbs to 100 lbs" My puppy weights about 70 lbs..so if it can treat a dog that is 100 lbs doesn't that mean the dosage is off by 30 lbs for my dog?? With the Ivomec you dose per every 10 lbs which is a bit closer.....

Still I dunno, I'm gonna snoop around on this a bit more and talk to a few people and see what I can learn.

celtechfarms
07-10-2006, 07:45 AM
Make sure you use Ivomec and not Quest or any other wormer that may have an advers reaction, Quest has killed dogs in small dossages. This sounds like a great way to look after big dogs, I own two, hundred plus pound dogs and its not cheap to medicate them with Heartguard. I've heard of the horsemen around here worming with horse wormer, just a small amount left over after doing the horses. Its not something I had thought to try. Let us know what you find out from your vet, I might mention it to mine when we go in for our boosters this year.

countrychic10
07-10-2006, 08:33 AM
LOL...well I talked to my vet today. I asked him about Quest and other Equine wormers and he said those could not be given to dogs.

I then asked him about Ivomec. He said " We have developed things like HeartGuard to prevent infestation of Heartworms in canines" I said "Yes I know, Ivomec and and HeartGuard are the same thing which is ivermectin" He said: " HeartGuard is better suited for a more accurate dosage in Canines" I said " Well I buy the 51 lb to 100 lb pack for my 70 lb dane puppy so if I can treat 51 lbs with this pack and I can also treat 100 lbs...isn't that a bit off on dosing???....By using Ivomec I can dose more accurately by every 10 lbs, which is alot closer than the 30 lbs that I am off now" He would not commet on that, so I then asked if the dosage of 1/10 of 1 cc per 10 lbs of body weight was correct. He would ot answer that either and had to see his next client. So...I went to a differet vet, one who didn't have to worry about losing that $100 per month from me and he said that he orders Ivomec and sells it to our local "Rescue the Animals" who run the local humae society and animal shelter and they use it for heartworm prevetion to save on cost! And he said that the dosage was also correct. So I think I am going to try it, and I am also switching vets...after having a chat with him for about 20 minutes I had all my pets paper work and health history faxed over to this doctor for the simple fact that he was honest with me and didn't care if he lost a little bit of money by not selling me heartguard.

Also in my digging around I found this website: http://www.savingshelterpets.com/helpful_posts.html

Just wanted to add that he did say not to use the horse dewormers, since he has seen adverse reactions in those. I asked him about the Ivomec paste and he said he has only used the injectable 1 % solution given orally.

Either way, I would personally reccomend that you speak to differet vets and gather what information you can before switching. Your current vet may not be okay with it, and though I don't mean this wrong...you can't just take anyone's advice that types something on the computer :P So if you decide to do it, do your research. And also.....before you do this you HAVE to be sure the dog is heartworm negative by getting them tested by your vet. You are not suppossed to do this if the dog is already infested.

JustAnotherDogLover
07-10-2006, 08:50 AM
I'm going to talk to my vet when I see him next. He's really good on saving money for pet owners. If I ask him what I can use for whatever, he'll recomend something, say he carries it but if I want to save money, so and so store sells it cheaper. So he'll be all for it considering costs (provided it really is an okay thing). We've seen SOO much heartworm since Katrina that he's pushing preventative and lowered the cost of the test. And he's doing "lobby testing" so he can test more dogs during the day and not have to charge an office visit. My vets a really good guy when it comes to costs.

Thanks for all this info though!!! It's definately got me thinking. I have one going through heartworm treatment right now and I'm amazed at how quickly she's changed with her first dose. I'll do anything to keep her from having to suffer like this again. The biggest concern I have is that she is a collie mix and I know there are concerns with Ivomec given to Collies. But, what are the other options?? Not preventing at all? I think I'd much rather risk the right--or even a too low dose--than do nothing at all.

countrychic10
07-10-2006, 12:05 PM
I believe collies usually have to take something different like Interceptor, which I believe has a different main ingrediant. But yes, I would definately talk to your vet first. Did you read the link in my last post??? (http://www.savingshelterpets.com/helpful_posts.html)

They metioned something about vets being able to get a generic version of the heartworm treatments and preventatives. If you or your vet are not comfortable with trying the Ivomec, maybe you could ask about the generic options to help cut cost a bit.

And I just want to add that it is awesome that your vet is so considerate!!! I wish I could have a vet like that. Hopefully by switching to this new vet he will realize that have large dogs that can be expensive to buy meds for and offer me some more options. Not to metion I occasionally have rescue Danes in the house (4 this year so far) and most of them come to me with numerous problems and are in need of vet care. 3 out of the 4 we have taken in have tested positive for heartworms, so if I can find something that helps out with the cost of treating them (and is safe of course) then I'm all for it. :D